@Vidiot: "Brother Grey will see you now."
Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
JoinedPosts by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
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32
Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination
by john.prestor ini want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.
that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.
-frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.
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Pioneers, Prayers and Pills
by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho inlooking back on my two decades as a jehovah’s witness, i’ve come to realize how the constant theme of endurance is playing a detrimental role on the individual's psyche.. jehovah’s witnesses have become far too good at keeping going.
they’re experts at surrendering to the demands of the watchtower, living up to what’s expected of them, and getting on with the priorities that those in power have defined and imposed upon them.
they keep showing up, presenting themselves a dutiful pioneer or ministerial servant.
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Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
@LevelThePlayingField Special rates for Lower Midwest clients :).
@nmthinker: "I drank so much as a JW I think I was honestly trying to kill myself and disappear." Believe me - I think there are many "sober" alcoholics within the organization. And by that, I mean, people white-knuckling their way through each day, stubbornly refusing to deal with severe issues at hand and seeking escape in their next bottle of Watchtower-labeled brandy.
Remember this face of defeat from the Bunker videos?
Her potential crime? Entertaining "negative thoughts".
The end result of her boycotting what her mind was screaming at her to pay attention to is self-apparent in the picture above.
When difficult (or "negative") feelings do threaten to emerge, the loyal Witness typically takes fright and looks away. Rather than produce an honest account of feelings, they are coached to go numb (or as the video emphasized, "deaden ourselves"). The only other option is for them to self-deceive with a version of events that is more acceptable than true...
For example, "I'm feeling very stressed from work," instead of "I can't keep up with my theocratic obligations." Or, "I'm just depressed," rather than "I'm furious with the way the brothers handled that." Or, "this movie is completely unacceptable - turn it off!" instead of, "I really want to see what happens in the end."
The Witnesses' problems are compounded by the way that many powerful feelings (especially ones of upset, frustration and betrayal) are not just censored, but strictly warned against expressing to outsiders for fear of "causing divisions". There's just one radical issue with this: feelings that are ignored don't and can't go away. They fester and manifest their energy through an array of health issues, both psychological and physical. As @doubtful1799 put it, it "makes the heart sick." Is it any wonder why each congregation reflects a jumbled bag of pharmaceutical allsorts?
The reality is, feelings are often far from wonderful and seldom should be followed. But we should accept that if we ignore, deny or overlook feelings entirely, the price will ALWAYS be higher and worse. They will exercise a powerful allying subterranean influence across the whole of our lives, buckling and straining our very system of being.
@resolute Bandicoot: "I have seen countless people reduced to mental jelly, drink way too much, fall into chronic fatigue or suffer in other terrible ways due to the alert fatigue and ideological strait jacket imposed by this bunch of clowns." And who's more easier to control and manipulate than the weak and dependent? Interesting to ponder over.
Essentially, I don't think the shelving of "negative thoughts" is any more moral, virtuous and courageous than an axe murder whose axe is put in a hard-to-reach space. You've got issues? Face them.
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Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination
by john.prestor ini want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.
that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.
-frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.
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Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
@john.prestor Happy to support that venture :).
You mentioned the tedious ping-ponging of reading paragraphs/asking questions, then answering from the paragraph (and lather, rinse, repeat).
Study conductors simply cannot cope when the student goes of script or asks additional questions. Usually, the conductor will instruct the student to "put that thought on hold," or "shelve that question for later...", and I think this is, in large part, to do with the utter chaos Jehovah's Witnesses are conditioned to anticipate should things go slightly out of the order predicated by the Watchtower - both studiously, and off duty in the real world.
They are under the strong impression that the Governing Body has provided them with the ONLY formula to navigate through existence. Anything that slightly deviates from the prescribed margins is a landslide to hell. And you see this in the Witnesses' absolute terror to ad lib during a Bible study.
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If there is a god.....
by Crazyguy in“if there is a god, and he is a loving god, then he would of given each of us a time machine” .
crazyguy.
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Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
“If there is a god, and he is a loving god, then he wouldn't give man any reason to travel back in time."
-WHAM!
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Why didn't I leave back then???
by silentbuddha insunday my old bethel roommate came up to visit me.
he left a couple years ago and he wanted to catch up and reminisce.. while we sat back remembering crazy things we saw take place at bethel he reminded me of a creepy instance with bro.
swingell.. it was a saturday morning and we decided to actually go get breakfast.
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Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
@Tallon: "It would be a best seller!"
Let's call it: Printers and Pillows and Pacemakers - Oh My!
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But it's not about the Money
by LevelThePlayingField inmoney was the motivator.. .
money.
again, money was the motivator.. .
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Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
Hey Tony, you bloodless, money-grabbing freak. I found a part of the Bible where the apostle Paul specifically addresses you and your billion dollar empire:
"...and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain." - 1 Timothy 6:5
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JWTALK Bob Comes Up With A Classic
by AverageJoe1 inthe guy everyone loves to hate, bob, has come up with a classic:.
redefining the concept of "critical thinking" when it comes to jws.. he quite correctly states the need to use critical thinking when reading the bible, yet we all know that pimi jws don't have the first clue what "critical thinking" really means, especially on a thread fawning over how great the gb are and guessing who will be presenting the next jwb!.
the link to the actual comment is:.
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Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
Critical thinking when cross-examining the sovereign of the universe: allowed.
Critical thinking when cross-examining the dudes who claim to speak for said sovereign: DENIED.
Go figure.
@jp1692: Let's review: It's a cult!
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32
Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination
by john.prestor ini want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.
that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.
-frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.
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Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
@john.prestor Some seriously astute observations you've been making. I'd really like to see your finished research! Will you be posting it on this forum?
This was lifted by one of our forum contributors, @pale.emperor, from an approved JWs-only forum:
I also received these words in an email a couple of months ago by an old JW acquaintance who has cottoned on to my external research activities of the Septuagint:
"You owe Jehovah humility and honesty. He doesn't favour the intellectual ones who are proud and showy with their academic knowledge. He sees your loving heart [WHAM!] and has tried to help you on numerous occasions. Now it's time to walk the walk, no more talk. Get to work in proclaiming the kingdom blessings to the lost souls in this dying world... Ignore the occasional hypocrite and just PUT YOUR NOSE TO THE GROUND PLEASING JEHOVAH."
Earlier this year, I had a brief stint with a Jehovah's Witness who conducted a Bible study with me while I feigned interest as a worldly person. Here are some excerpts from some email exchanges we had between studies (all quotes belong to the study conductor):
"These are very complicated arguments you present me with. I remember Jesus words in Matthew 11:25 where Jesus said that Jehovah reveals things not to the wise and intellectual ones but to young children.I am of the latter. Jehovah does the revealing."
"I am prepared to just study the simple truths of the bible with you, but you need to decide what motivates you to want to talk to us. We are looking for people who are looking for the truth. We are delighted to help them find the simple truth of the bible. I hope you are one of these people."
"Jehovah does not want us to be ignorant either. But when it comes to wisdom I feel I need to be humble and recognise that human wisdom pales into insignificance when it comes to Jehovah’s wisdom. 1 Corinthians 1:19."
"I’m willing to discuss with you what I have learned is the truth, but I’m not willing to debate about words or dates. Times are urgent, we need to get on with the job Jesus gave us Matt 28:19-20. Matt 24:14 Matt 10-7. If you still want me to come on those terms I will be happy to."
"Really, the truth is very simple, paradise lost, paradise regained. Even uneducated simple people can grasp it because it is Jehovah who reveals it."
"I have decided that I will not be discussing things any more, I feel that you have formed very firm ideas about jw. Nothing I could say would change your mind."
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29
Pioneers, Prayers and Pills
by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho inlooking back on my two decades as a jehovah’s witness, i’ve come to realize how the constant theme of endurance is playing a detrimental role on the individual's psyche.. jehovah’s witnesses have become far too good at keeping going.
they’re experts at surrendering to the demands of the watchtower, living up to what’s expected of them, and getting on with the priorities that those in power have defined and imposed upon them.
they keep showing up, presenting themselves a dutiful pioneer or ministerial servant.
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Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
Looking back on my two decades as a Jehovah’s Witness, I’ve come to realize how the constant theme of Endurance is playing a detrimental role on the individual's psyche.
Jehovah’s Witnesses have become far too good at keeping going. They’re experts at surrendering to the demands of the Watchtower, living up to what’s expected of them, and getting on with the priorities that those in power have defined and imposed upon them. They keep showing up, presenting themselves a dutiful pioneer or Ministerial Servant. Many can pull this magical feat up for years at a time, without so much as an outward twitch.
And then one day, much to everyone’s surprise (including their own) they break. The rupture can take many forms. The Bethelite develops chronic fatigue. The Coordinator’s wife falls into a catatonic depression. The budding Elder is overcome by social anxiety. The Regular Pioneer restricts calories, or starts eating themselves into a stupor. Perhaps the Witness is compelled to do something extremely scandalous and entirely contrary to their regular JW selves. They might have an affair; get involved in explosive arguments; go down the path of drug or alcohol abuse… only to return, tail between legs, to the organization, pleading for a second chance at enduring.
The breakdown of a Jehovah’s Witness is hugely inconvenient for everyone involved. Salvation is at risk due to inactivity, families will shun loved ones for destructive behavior, and the congregational milieu will take a hit. And so, unsurprisingly, there is an immediate rush to medicate the problem in an attempt to exorcise it from the Witness so that “business as usual” can resume.
It is my sincerest belief that the JW brand of breakdown is not merely a random piece of madness or malfunction. It’s a very real - albeit very inarticulate - bid for awakening. It is the attempt of one part of their mind trying to force the other into a process of growth, intellectual honesty and self development, which it has been forbidden to undertake.
The go-to fix for many Jehovah’s Witnesses’ breakdowns is to medicalize it. But this is to misunderstand what’s going on when a Jehovah’s Witness finally suffers a break down. This shifts the true issue aside at once , tragically resulting in the missed lesson embedded in their sickness. While this may be a painful breaking down of their soul, it is also an extraordinary opportunity for them to break through into reality.
And so, the vital reason for the breakdown may be chalked up to the abuse of one word: ENDURANCE.
Throughout the years of faithful service, Witnesses were never allowed to flex their own thoughts. There were things they needed to hear in their own minds which were deftly put to one side under the thought-terminating cliché: “leave it in Jehovah’s hands”. There were messages the Witness needed to heed from the outside. There were bits of emotional learning and communicating that weren’t permitted. And then, after being patient for far too long, their true self is attempting to make itself heard in the only way it now knows how.
Above anything else, what the breakdown is telling the Witness is that it must no longer be “business as usual”. That things HAVE to change. Or, in its most frightening case, that death might be preferable than where they are currently.
So why do so many Jehovah’s Witnesses continue to drug themselves into submission in order to meet their hourly requirement? We all know the answer. The JW conscious mind is conditioned into quixotic simplicity and spurred on by fear - completely terrified to engage with what the breakdown has to eventually tell them with brutality. For years, their mind refused to listen to the growing sadness inside, the dysfunction within their own family behind closed doors, or some injustice they’ve witnessed in their congregation. Maybe there were ordinary desires of their true self that were swept very far under the proverbial carpet.
We can compare the process of this breakdown to a revolution. For years, the people press the government to listen to their demands and adjust. For years, the government makes token gestures - but shuts its ears. Until one day, it’s simply too much for the people. They storm the palace gates, destroy the fine furnishings, shoot randomly at the guilty and the innocent.
Mostly, in revolutions, there is no good outcome. The legitimate grievances and needs of the people are not addressed or even discovered. There’s an ugly civil war, and sometimes suicide. But then there are some of us who make it out to the other side. The difference between an active Jehovah’s Witness and an awakened one who has walked away from the battlefield is, we wear our wounds on the outside. There is no need to hide them internally and deal with the pain in ashamed silence anymore.
Breaking through a breakdown involves listening to, rather than censoring the illness with a veil of silence, a tight-lipped smile and an over-dependence on happy pills. Within the oddities and trauma of the breakdown, apostates have detected the internal plea to think critically. The desire to love and be loved unconditionally. For a more honest and fulfilled way of being. For acceptance of who we really are sexually, secularly or spiritually.
For any active Jehovah’s Witness out there who is in the midst of their own mental breakdown, you may feel you are going mad. You have not. You’re behaving oddly, no doubt. But beneath the surface agitation, you are on a hidden, yet logical search for awakening. You didn’t suddenly become mentally ill… You were already. This crisis is an attempt to dislodge you from the Watchtower’s toxic status quo. It represents an insistent call to rebuild your life on a more authentic and sincere basis.
I say all of this with earnestness, because it happened to me.
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Prof Bunsen / G Jackson?? See the similarities? It's the Muppet Show!
by stuckinarut2 inperhaps someone can assist here?.
while watching the may 2017 broadcast, it struck us how similar g jackson looks (while sitting and wearing his waist coat) to the muppets character prof bunsen!!!!.
perhaps someone with better computer skills can upload the pics side by side?.
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Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
On behalf of @stuckinarut2, I'd like to present you with the Muppet 8. Sit back, relax and enjoy another episode of Puppets Who Mind F*ck With No Strings Attached: